El Scorchio
7:05 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
southbankbornnbred 5:39
Cheers! Yeah definitely agree on the midfield part. The return to Europe doc on BT had a lot about how we’d tactically fallen so far behind in only five or so years after the ban. The national team was in the same boat so far behind as well. They talked about a study that was so wrong that it’s insane that the FA took as dogma about the least amount of touches being the most efficient way to score which really didn’t help and was incorporated into the coaching. I’d never heard of it before but it definitely played into the commitment to 442 and direct football.
Agree on Wenger. Never a plan B, although plan A was usually pretty bloody good. Fergie did wring the absolute maximum out of all his players and they’d all run through walls for the man.
|
Manuel
6:07 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Fergie retired knowing he should have had 4, minimum 3, CL wins, it niggles him big time.
|
goose
6:05 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Southbank - the champions league game they won at the emirates was one of the most complete performances I’ve ever seen.
This was before ‘transitions’ became trendy. They absolutely destroyed Arsenal that night.
|
southbankbornnbred
5:54 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
I dislike most things about Man Utd, but had a begrudging respect for Ferguson during his era. In England, it was interesting to watch him outhink/outplan the likes of Wenger most seasons.
That game at Highbury when Keane and Vieira squared off in the tunnel was a good case in point: Arsenal were, man for man, probably the better side that season. Yet Ferguson out-thought Wenger that night - and had players bursting forward from unexpected positions and angles. Hence, O'Shea's goal etc. Arsenal, and Wenger, couldn't cope.
Wenger gets lauded as a masterful tactician. He probably was. But Fergie often out-thought him. Which says everything about how good he was.
I'd still opt for Clough as the very best British manager, though. What he did at Derby and Forest - two mediocre clubs - was off-the-scale level of incredible.
|
southbankbornnbred
5:39 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Scorch - I'd say that's a fair assessment all round. Including the bit about him being a massive cunt.
He was a talented, organised and shrewd cunt, though.
His big problem in Europe, however, was the fact that - like most people in English football - he remained wedded to his preferred 4-4-2 system for far too long.
Against the very best sides across Europe - be that Barca, Real Madrid, Juve or whichever side was in the ascendency most years - Man Utd struggled because they were outnumbered in the crucial central midfield area. They were always 2 v 3 in there. Sometimes 2 v 4. And against teams that kept the ball well, that left them in trouble - no matter how good Keane and Scholes (later Carrick) were individually.
Fergie belatedly cottoned onto this.
Even when he won his first Champions League in 1999 (the treble year) they got thoroughly outfought by Bayern in midfield for most of that game.
But he was one heck of a coach. And a cunt.
|
Side of Ham
5:30 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
twoleftfeet 2:07 Sun Jun 4
I really like this team hence you will find it hard to see posts from me slagging the players directly. What I do detest is how they are asked to play more so because I think if they weren’t played into the ground at times I think we would have been celebrating a Europa League trophy and played in the Champions League…..
…..I also detest a twofacedcunt like you twofacedcunt….
|
El Scorchio
1:13 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
It’s hard to argue against Fergie, but he did have a couple of things massively in his favour- the best crop of youngsters ever to come through as a group who were the back bone of his teams for years, and for the best part of a decade thanks to their forward thinking with marketing and revenue streams unchallenged and unrivalled spending power to buy whatever player. As a club as a whole, they understood what the PL could do for them and did it far better than anyone but definitely with good fortune along the way. And I think it’s very true he knew the game was up as he was retiring and got out while the going was good to not tarnish his legacy.
You have to admire though the sheer hunger and work rate he kept in his teams through his entire time there, and always had them playing unrelenting good attacking stuff even if I hated them, and he did manage to keep evolving them until his latter years. Great talent spotter as well, again before he got older and missed on a fair few. Could have won some more in Europe. That was a big and long learning curve, I think.
What he did at Aberdeen was pretty extraordinary as well.
I always thought he was a massive cunt the whole time, but he is right at the top of the select few best ever managers in the British and European game.
|
RBshorty
3:53 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
“I would like to congratulate Sir Alex on achieving in 13 years. What took me 12 months too accomplish.!”
Brian Clough.
|
Steady
3:45 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
RBshorty 3:39 Sun Jun 4
Not everyone’s cup of tea, but Ferguson was IMO the best manager of all time, and across all countries
|
RBshorty
3:39 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Fergie was a very good manager.. But Trapattoni and Lippi were better. (Maybe they had the better players at the time.?) And knew the gig was up when Pep come on the scene. Bit of a flat track bully on the domestic league. But should have done much better in Europe after 99.
|
Alfs
3:31 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
gph 3:01 Sun Jun 4
I'm sure that the greatest manager in Premier League history will be delighted by your praise.
|
gph
3:01 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
On t'other hand, doing well in Scotland with someone other than Celtic or Rangers is a bloody good sign.
I don't particularly like Ferguson, but he was a halfway decent manager.
|
southbankbornnbred
2:15 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
To give you some indication of how managing either Celtic or Rangers is viewed as a piss easy way of putting 'something' on your Cv...Frank Lampard is still being touted as a potential target in Glasgow, even after the hilarious slow-motion car crash of the past 18 months.
Says it all.
|
twoleftfeet
2:08 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Keep dreaming still bleating on I note, him and his Tena lady crew never shut the fuck up.
|
twoleftfeet
2:07 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Snide of ham will you be watching on Wednesday?
Be embarrassing if you were because you fucking hate this team and it’s manager.
|
southbankbornnbred
2:06 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Pretty much anybody could win titles at Celtic right now. Scotland is a one-horse shitshow. It was a two-horse race for decades, then one of the horses went lame because it ate too much.
Celtic are far and away the richest club in Scotland. By a country mile. Rangers have yet to make back that ground after their financial collapse and rebuild.
Neil Lennon won five titles with Celtic.
Neil. Fucking. Lennon. His most recent job was in Cyprus.
Spurs can have Postecoglu - there's a good chance he won't last two seasons in that role.
|
Sydney_Iron
1:52 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Also well done Celtic for winning the Scottish version and especially Postecoglou who has proved the doubters wrong after some in the media and punditry described his appointment 2 years ago as a joke! 5 trophies in 2 seasons aint a bad haul, granted it is Scotland!!! Many wet their pants when Gerrard won 1 in 3 seasons in sweaty land and he was the next football messiah.....LOL.
Now looks like Ange will be in the PL next season, both us and Spurs heavily linked, Spurs odds on though.
|
White Pony
1:34 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
I also think Phillips is a better player than many give him credit for. He’s not a Rice level replacement, I get that, but I think he’s decent but hasn’t been able to develop as a player as he made a move to a side where he never plays.
|
White Pony
1:30 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
I fucking detest the term “low block”, almost as much as I hate the playing style it describes.
|
Side of Ham
12:52 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Let’s get some perspective here please….thrived in the second part of the lockdown season….thrived in the first part of the following season, becoming an England regular has brought him on tenfold….then overplayed by Moyes along with the rest of the team…..we’ve then had a terrible season with 20 defeats which has got other managers the sack…..getting to this final was a rest from a shitfest of a season….a final which we’ve got to playing next to nobody of note….
|
Alex G
12:42 Sun Jun 4
Re: FA Cup Final
|
Keep dreaming 9:39 Sat Jun 3
Moyes has taken a team threatened with relegation in to one that has achieved back to back top seven top flight finishes (pretty sure no other West Ham manager has achieved that) along with taking us to a European final and semi-final.
Claiming that he could achieve that without having some player thrive under him is at best delusional at worst utterly pathetic.
|
| 
